What is particularly fun in an emotional support group, is when people hear terms used in therapy, and start throwing them around as if they're experts on the subject, even if the term doesn't apply. The propensity to psychoanalyze whomever they are talking to, is irresistible to some, and apparently a symptom of whatever issue(s) they are afflicted with as well. But I'm not here to judge, just to expose the behavior of one particular individual who took considerable offense to a comment that I made on a post she submitted that I took exception to. The righteous indignation that followed is what precipitated its presence here. It is here as a record of what transpired, though I suppose there is a significant sense of vindication on my part in putting this together.
On January 22, 2019, a woman going by the name of Marisa posted a message to the group that was blatantly religious in nature. Unfortunately, I don't have a screen shot of the original post, but I do have a copy of my one and only comment that I made in response to that post, because I drafted it in a note outside of facebook before pasting it in. I often do that with long posts, as there have been too many times when I have lost a post due to a glitch - which actually happened to me at one point in this ordeal.
Because I do not have the original post, I cannot recite it verbatim, and can only recount my interpretation of it. But it included images of three Bible verses (a combo meme), and Marisa's comment expressed a statement about how "unpopular" it is to be a Christian these days, and further alluded to feelings of oppression, and a cry for acceptance. She expressed that she found great joy in the Bible and asserted that she (and all other Christians) should feel free to be themselves without condemnation, and to me, implied a sense of superiority, bestowed upon her simply on the basis that she believed in God. The way it was worded and presented was not one of asking for equal consideration, but one of suggesting that she ought to be able to wave her religion around wherever she wanted, as a display of superiority, almost as if to expect us all to find public masturbation equally acceptable. Again, that was my interpretation, and I don't have the original post for her to defend. But the point is, the support group is NOT religiously based - which is one reason I like it - and I wasn't the only one who took exception to her grandstanding sentiments.
Perhaps it was a poor choice on my part to speak up, but that's what I do when I feel something is inappropriate for a venue as a whole, and I have dealt with so many sanctimoniously condescending people who claim to be "Christians" for so long, that I simply did not want that kind of crap to seep into a sanctuary where people come looking for helpful advice. There are countless other venues littered throughout the Internet where people are more than free and welcome to wave their religious beliefs around, and this just isn't one of them. Don't get me wrong - I don't think anybody in the group has a problem with anyone else believing in a god or not, but it's just not the place to throw it in everybody's face as though it is The Solution. I'm happy if someone finds joy in religion. I (and others) are just not so happy when those same people think everybody else does - or should - too.
Anyway, here's the comment I posted in response to her post. By the way, the thread was taken down by the admins sometime while I was sleeping (I made the post just before going to bed). Apparently, things took a turn for the worse. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to see any of it.
"Yeah, it’s a bit unpopular, especially considering the Supreme Court just upheld a religiously-rooted ban on transgender people serving in the military. Seriously? It’s hard for me to cherry-pick the good bits from the religion when it’s shrouded in such divisive condescension. I wonder how much flak I would get if I posted an atheist-themed statement as arrogant as this. It’s one thing to have your beliefs - you’re free to have them in this country (just as I am free to not share them), but waving them around like a flag, deliberately in-your-face, as if to say, “I’m better than you,” is not appropriate for a mixed group that comes here to give and get support regarding emotional issues. I’m sorry, but this kind of grandstanding is misplaced here, as there are literally countless other groups where you can go to share these sentiments with others who share them. I could equally state that humanity, logic, and reason moves mountains, and make some statement about how unpopular it is to be an atheist, and continue with a divisive comment about how it’s not my problem if you don’t like it, but I don’t like to go around inviting the kind of crappy responses that would surely elicit. We’re all here as human beings to help each other out and lift each other up, let’s not spoil it with sanctimony. I’m glad your beliefs give you joy and help you feel empowered. But it’s one thing to express them in a way that we can all celebrate and share in, and quite another to present it in a way that separates you from others in the group (or separates others from you).The next morning, after I discovered the post was gone (the whole thing), I saw that Marisa had created a brand new post. Below is a screen shot of what I saw (by the way, the time in the screen shot was when I captured the screen shot. Subtract 20 hours, and it seems she was up at around 3:00 AM MST, concocting this tale):
So, you’re a Christian. So what? Why do you feel the need to point that out? It doesn’t make you special. You could have just said you are thankful for the things in your life that you attribute to “God” and here are a few verses that you found really helpful that you’d like to share with us in hope that we find them useful, too. I get the sense that maybe you get some flak for being a Christian, based on your statement. If so, maybe it’s partly in your presentation. As I understand it, Christians are supposed to be loving and follow the words of Christ, but I encounter far too many who are proud, righteous, condescending and full of judgement. Be strong in your faith if that’s important to you, but understand that others around you may not share your sentiments. So, just a bit of advice: try to have some humility and lead by example. Religion wasn’t meant for self-aggrandizement. Let it be a healing force in your life, without poisoning others with conceit. I encounter far too many people who call themselves Christians who have the attitude that you’re nothing without God. That couldn’t be further from the truth, and in a support group, we can’t afford to even give that impression to someone who may be struggling. I don’t mean to be a killjoy here, but I hope I’ve given some food for thought. Bear in mind, you can’t claim to be loving while propping yourself up above others. I’m sorry if I have misinterpreted your post in any way, based on my own biases as a result of my interaction with other “Christians”. But you can be authentic, with or without a god, and I just might need to pop in here sometime, trusting that I can get support if I’m feeling bad about shit I get for being a transgender atheist. If you think being a Christian is unpopular... Want to trade?"
Those were some mighty accusations, amid her confusing syntax. Verbal abuse, bullying, harassment, character assassination, blame, heated condescension, intimidation, and gaslighting (there's one of those therapy terms). Wow. I wasn't going to touch that one. No way was I going to take that bait. Or, well, that was the plan. But I made the mistake of reading the comments. I just can't learn that lesson. Don't read the comments! But, OMG, the comments. I could only imagine what took place in the original post to have it taken down. By the way, take note of the line I highlighted in my comment, above. See if you recognize it in something she wrote later on.
I refrained from commenting for a long time (mostly because I was traveling), and I truly did not want to. I just wanted Marisa to put her true character on display and see where things went. I did, however, send a comment to the creator of the group to express my concern:
To Admin1: January 23, 2019 8:41AM There is a comment thread on GFM that is turning into yet another sanctimoniously condescending religious forum, apparently triggered by a comment I posted yesterday to someone who took it so offensively that she decided to publicly vent to the group by painting a picture for everyone about how hateful and abusive I am (she even used the word gaslighting, which is a stretch). Maybe you or someone can step in and shut it down. It’s turning into EXACTLY what my original comment was attempting to avoid. Apparently, the original post was deleted. This should not be a public spectacle in the group, as it disrupts the purpose of the group to be supportive. Maybe you could do a video about how to separate criticism of one’s beliefs from criticism of one’s self, and how not to take the opinions of others so personally.And then I went back to reading the comments. Again, I had no intention of responding, but then I came across a comment or two from someone rightfully pointing out that they knew nothing of the person Marisa was holding up on trial, and expressed concern that others were condemning him (i.e. me) based on nothing but hearsay, without being present to defend myself. I honestly didn't feel any need to defend myself, as I was quite satisfied with how she was putting her character on display, showing her true colors. But after reading a couple more comments from Marisa, I guess I just couldn't resist saying something in my defense, because I was just getting tired of her pleas for accolades, as she fished out the other Christians in the group to express their condemnation for such abominable behavior, in solidarity, against a straw man enemy.
Fortunately, I was traveling that day, so I didn't get to swim in the comments, much, but I did peek in a couple of times from the airport. Sometime later (like, late in the day, after this spectacle grew to biblical proportions, and I was safely at my destination), I got a response from one of the group admins who was responsible for taking down the original thread that I had commented on. This is what the admin had to say:
January 23, 2019 10:46PM Hi Bill,
This is Admin2 [name omitted] (Admin) from GFM.[group name obscured]
I just wanted to note that my words were taken out of context by Marisa. Without going into great detail, I told her a couple of her posts had been deleted because the comments (everyone's, including hers) had turned sour and detracted from any uplifting intentions she had.
Had I thought your comment was the issue, I would have just deleted the comment.
I would like to personally apologize that you have been cornered and I would like to thank you for the way in which you have handled it.
For now, I have turned off commenting for the most recent post and await further instruction from Admin1.
Please note that I have sent this privately to you as I wish to remain out of the thread until I've discussed with Admin1 how best to diffuse the situation - Please keep this to yourself.
Thank you for being a member of GFM. I hope that after this has blown over you still feel accepted and welcomed!
Warmly,
Admin2
Me:Thank you, Admin2. I was in the middle of writing a reply to her, offering some apologies, when you disabled commenting, so my comment was lost. I did not want to soil the group by being baited into a conflict - I did not appreciate her public venting to the group (even anonymously), without so much as a private note to me that my words had upset her, but I didn’t want to further degrade the conversation by engaging, though it did a good job of going there on its own. I still love this group. Everyone is different, so I know I’m going to encounter disagreements and varied opinions at times, and I can only hope that such outlashing will be rare, but it is just one voice, so I’m not letting it get me down. I will let my own words and actions set the tone for how people see me - I’ve learned that it only gets worse if I engage defensively. Thanks for stepping in. I did write a note to Admin1 earlier, alerting to the emerging comment thread this morning.
Admin2:Thanks for doing that and alerting us to it! I haven't managed to get in touch with Admin1 yet today but I imagine this will all be addressed (or deleted) soon! I'm sorry your comment was lost! I feel that you've redeemed yourself (although it is evident Marisa feels otherwise - What can you do?). I agree, this would have been best dealt privately and discreetly. I'm learning as an admin - must nip these things in the bud early on! Anyways, thanks again for being so understanding. So pleased to hear you will remain a member, we're lucky to have you!
Me:
Thanks for having me. I was traveling all day, so just got around to reading some of the comments in that thread. Wow. Anyway, I look forward to the follow-up.
Take note that this comes from someone who has read the entire exchange - including the stuff that I missed overnight while I was sleeping. So, I can't take any credit for this person's opinion, as it was not coerced in any way, nor falsely obtained. I have removed the names for privacy reasons, and was reluctant to include the text here, as the admin requested that I keep it to myself. But I thought it was important to the context of this whole mess, to reveal an outside perspective.
By the way, I believe the reference to the admin's words being taken out of context, refers to the very last post from Marisa, presented below, where she intimated the thread was removed solely based upon my comment. And it wasn't until 9 hours later, after she had some time to expand her story and establish her support base, that she finally responded to my more recent comment:
I literally said nothing about her in my comment, and yet she is saying I am accusing her, blaming her, and gaslighting her about something. I'm still trying to figure out where she even picked that up from my comment. I certainly didn't hold her accountable for "exposing" myself. Apparently, she reads what she wants to see. I mean, after all, all I said was I'm sorry she took such offense to it, and suggested she could have tried reading my original comment (which was gone along with the whole thread) with a little less bias. I also pointed out the use of the term "gaslighting" was inapplicable, and tried to get her to see that my intent was to avoid the condescending, divisive stance of superiority that I saw in her original post. Maybe that's what triggered her. I guess, since she's a Christian, it's OK to outright, blatantly throw direct accusations at me after I've merely given my personal impression of what I saw. Maybe she didn't like that I expressed how other people who claimed to be Christian have dished out a ton of sanctimoniously condescending, self-righteous, judgmental, hateful bullshit by the truckload toward me in the past. I guess mocking the flock is offensive to the sheep, even when they're ba-a-a-a-ad.
And she wasn't done. An hour later, she had something more to say.
OK, maybe this is the comment the admin was referring to that Marisa took out of context. It's still the same sentiment - that it was my comment alone that headed south. And I guess now I'm the victim. That's interesting, considering she was the one who felt compelled to blast an exaggerated misrepresentation of me (albeit namelessly) in a public forum on social media. And look how my criticism has morphed into "prejudice" and "religious discrimination". And I'm the one acting like the victim?
Much earlier in the discussion thread, someone posted a rational, reasonable comment that helped provide some balance to the mounting support for the condemnation of the unknown assailant (i.e. me). It was around the time I had made my comment to the thread, and I figured since I had already commented in defense, thus outed myself, though perhaps not blatantly, I felt compelled to respond to such a potential ally to make it clear that I was the one that Marisa was discrediting.
Since it got 4 likes, I assumed I wasn't crazy after all. I at least hoped people would see I wasn't quite the monster I was portrayed to be, and at least one person felt that, perhaps, Marisa was overreacting. Maybe just a little bit.
See how far a little humility goes? I was hoping a little of that would rub off on Marisa, but her stance was (and probably still is) firmly planted. Because, you know, she has God on her side.
Such a loving God to have imparted such truth, dignity, grace, and nobility upon such a righteous sheep. I guess I had her pegged from the beginning. I'm glad I spoke up. Even my allies didn't take a liking to her spew.
Remember that line of text I highlighted from my original comment? Kind of sounds like I had her number from the beginning.
Me: "...a divisive comment about how it’s not my problem if you don’t like it...".
Marisa: "...I am standing in my truth and if that ruffles your feathers I am not responsible for that you are."
I guess I'm off the hook for ruffling her feathers, then. Or, maybe that only goes one way with Christians.
Yep. Apparently, it's a one-way street. And, somehow along the way, she managed to pick up a few pilot fish that swim in the same pool of sanctimony, and for a brief span, there was an embarrassing (and somewhat sickening) exchange of Christian love in the thread, too awkward to post in its entirety, but this one pretty much summed up the exchange:
How powerless someone has to feel to think they can be "subdued into submission" when someone else merely stands their ground and expresses their personal opinion that happens to conflict with one's beliefs. Maybe if they weren't so sensitive to people criticizing their beliefs and taking it so personally that they think they are being criticized (much less attacked!), they wouldn't feel such a need to lean on some all-powerful God to justify their indignation and give them exclusive bullying rights. Then again, if their God is such a loving god, why do they feel so compelled to lash out with such hatred? That's the part I don't get, and I never will. I'm just happy that other people in the group were at least civil.
Yes, let's report it to the admin. Let's report all of it to the admin, in full context, and get it all removed, as none of this shit is tolerated here. But let me take screen shots of the entire thread, first...
From Admin1:
By the way, I believe the reference to the admin's words being taken out of context, refers to the very last post from Marisa, presented below, where she intimated the thread was removed solely based upon my comment. And it wasn't until 9 hours later, after she had some time to expand her story and establish her support base, that she finally responded to my more recent comment:
And she wasn't done. An hour later, she had something more to say.
Much earlier in the discussion thread, someone posted a rational, reasonable comment that helped provide some balance to the mounting support for the condemnation of the unknown assailant (i.e. me). It was around the time I had made my comment to the thread, and I figured since I had already commented in defense, thus outed myself, though perhaps not blatantly, I felt compelled to respond to such a potential ally to make it clear that I was the one that Marisa was discrediting.
Me: "...a divisive comment about how it’s not my problem if you don’t like it...".
Marisa: "...I am standing in my truth and if that ruffles your feathers I am not responsible for that you are."
I guess I'm off the hook for ruffling her feathers, then. Or, maybe that only goes one way with Christians.
Yep. Apparently, it's a one-way street. And, somehow along the way, she managed to pick up a few pilot fish that swim in the same pool of sanctimony, and for a brief span, there was an embarrassing (and somewhat sickening) exchange of Christian love in the thread, too awkward to post in its entirety, but this one pretty much summed up the exchange:
From Admin1:
Jan 24 9:00 amTHE END
Thanks Bill. The thread has been removed.
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